Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: If you're looking for the skills and tools to succeed in real estate investing, you've come to the right place. This show is about breaking through barriers, breaking through limiting beliefs, and breaking through to the life that you want to live through the power of real estate investing. You're listening to the Breakthrough Real Estate Investing Podcast. And now, here are your hosts, Rob Brake and Quinton d'souza.
[00:00:29] Speaker B: Hello, everybody. Welcome back. Thanks for joining us again. My name is Rob Break, and with me again is Quinton.
[00:00:36] Speaker C: Hello, everyone.
[00:00:38] Speaker B: I'm gonna get a voice changer for. When I say your name, it's gonna be just like echo and big and loud.
[00:00:45] Speaker C: Yeah, as long as it's not booing, it's okay.
[00:00:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I tried to hook the sound effects board up to this, but it wasn't working right. You were like, we were only hearing, like, the first half of the sound effect lost all of its. Yeah, no, it doesn't work. I'll try again someday, and then we'll give you some applause or whatever when, when you're introduct introduced.
[00:01:07] Speaker C: Appreciate.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: How you doing?
[00:01:08] Speaker C: I'm doing well. I don't know. I just came from the gym again and did shoulder day. I'm feeling pretty good. I finally got a little bit of lats, which is something I've been working on on the health side of things. And as I was at the gym, I heard the 0.5% increase or decrease. Sorry. Yeah, yeah. So we're, we're all happy. You know, hopefully it's like a, to the, the housing market shock to the system here and, and get it going again, because it's been a real challenge. You know, I've been talking to realtors, funny enough at the gym in the morning. There are lots of Realtors. So I, I.
And so, you know, I've had really good conversations with some of them, and there, there are realtors that are having some real challenges right now, you know, just making ends meet. They, you know, they bought properties themselves, and, you know, the time that they bought it, they were doing a ton of transactions, and now, you know, they're, they may have listings, but they're not getting sales. And, you know, they are finding it really challenging. So, you know, just, you know, being on the street talking to a lot of different realtors, I'm. I'm really getting that sense. So I'm hoping that this particular increase or decrease has a positive effect. But, but I think another one in December. So December 11th is the next bank of Canada announcement. So we're, I think a Lot of people are hoping for another half point, but if, if we get at least a quarter point, I know that I win the, the bet and, and Rob has to do something. I, I have to go back and listen to what it is that Rob has.
[00:03:07] Speaker B: 100 burpees.
[00:03:08] Speaker D: Oh yeah, man.
[00:03:10] Speaker B: Oh yeah. I'm ready. I'll do a workout.
[00:03:13] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:03:15] Speaker C: All right.
[00:03:15] Speaker B: Well, no, I mean, we'll have to wait and see. But I think the spring market is going to be, you know, is going to be pretty fantastic. I'm looking, looking forward to that.
[00:03:24] Speaker C: Excellent. And why do you think that?
[00:03:27] Speaker B: Just because, like. Well, with the, if we get good news in December, another decrease, then, you know, it's December. Right. So I think, I think once we roll into the spring again, that's when we're really going to see things pick up.
[00:03:41] Speaker C: Yeah. So. And naturally Canada has a slower December January because of the weather.
You know what I, what I've often.
[00:03:51] Speaker B: Nobody wants to go outside. Yeah.
[00:03:53] Speaker C: Yeah. But if you're, if you're somebody who's interested in purchasing and getting a good deal, like December and January has traditionally been a good time to be able to purchase.
[00:04:03] Speaker B: I've been lots of good deals in December.
[00:04:06] Speaker C: Yeah. And, and I think in addition to what's been happening so far, you know, with sales being down, I think that there's an increased opportunity for people to, to do extremely well on their, you know, on their purchases, particularly if they have a longer term point of view. They're not trying to transact on real estate quickly, but they're looking at buying it and then holding it for, you know, know, five years, 10 years out. I think that, you know, this would be a great time particularly if you can make a purchase on a property that is cash flow positive from the get go. Right. Or has ability to, you know, increase its highest and best use to something that can, you know, help you, whether that's adding a, an additional garden suite or basement suite. And can't wait to introduce our guest because I think that's really going to help us with some of those additional densification components that maybe people aren't thinking about but is definitely being pushed by the federal and the provincial governments. We just have to get some of the municipal governments on board before we get into it.
[00:05:26] Speaker B: Just with all that talk of every, you know, of potentially, you know, the market starting to Kachun, as you say, when you, when you have Durham REI meetings now, is there a lot of new members? Like, is there a lot of new real estate investors coming in yeah, that's a good question.
[00:05:45] Speaker C: And I found that that hasn't been the case. I find, I found that it's a little bit more challenging because it, it isn't a market that's appreciating right now. What I find is the opposite of what you should be doing. So when, when the market is doing well, we get tons of new members that come in and then when the market does poorly, we get less new members and we have people that leave because. But it should be the opposite. You should have people coming in when it's challenging because then you have a support network to help you to work through different issues. And also, that's also a good opportunity to, to, to utilize different sorts of strategies in order for you to, you know, be ready and, and learn so that of it. Yeah. So when the market shifts that you're, you're ready to go.
[00:06:40] Speaker E: Right.
[00:06:40] Speaker C: You've done all that learning. Right.
So I think that's, that's, it's the opposite of what should happen, but that's what happens. It's, it's definitely challenging. I'm lucky that, you know, DUR isn't something that I do in order to eat because it would be a challenging time. Right. You know, my, my, my real estate portfolio is definitely that what, what keeps me going. And now I think I'm at a, like 580 units in Ontario. And you know what? I think that like I'm okay from a, you know, a real estate perspective of what I have. I know that I'm going to continue to grow, but if, if I were to start again, it always makes sense to have a mentor or a group that you, that where people are ahead of you and that you can learn from doesn't have to be Durham rei. There's lots of great groups around Canada. I just, I just want people to know that wherever they go, whoever they choose as their mentor, whether it's books or people, just make sure that they are ahead of you. They're like, they, they, you want to do what they're doing and they've successfully done it already. That makes it easier for you because then you can learn from their mistakes. You can model some of the strategies that they have and then you don't have to make those mistakes. That's, that's exactly why you do it.
[00:08:15] Speaker B: You can also put mistakes into perspective, which is something that was very, very helpful for me in this, in the beginning too. When things would go wrong, I would just feel like the world was caving in. And when you Get a perspective from, you know, some of these other investors that are just like, why are you kidding me? That's nothing. You know, you can get through this, don't worry. And then you do. So that's really helpful as well.
[00:08:38] Speaker C: Oh yeah. You know, like, particularly, I think what happens with the landlord tenant board in Ontario is the problems that can happen with tenants that are professional tenants, tenants that are, are just using the system over and over again to, you know, extend out their stays in properties without paying by doing like stay orders over and over again and not, you know, trying to, I don't know, I want to say blackmail landlords and forcing them to pay them cash in order to, to leave.
I think that the, you know what, what happens is if you don't have a peer network to talk that through, whether it could be a Facebook group. But yeah, I think you have to watch out for Facebook group because mostly becomes a bunch of people complaining and, and a lot of bad advice from people who don't have enough experience than the people that should be giving advice that has the experience. Maybe professionals like paralegals and things like that. You have to be careful. But I do think that there is supports out there and you should go and, and seek it. Like if you've never been on Meetup before, meetup is a great place to kind of find other people who are meeting like meetup.com to, to find other groups. Like I go hiking and I've joined a bunch of hiking groups and on the weekends I just join a hike that's around me and it's, it's been great.
Same thing you could do for real estate investing, mountain biking.
You know, Facebook groups is a good place to look for that. So I just, I just want to warn people though, there are people who create those groups just to sell stuff and you have to kind of watch out for that also sell stuff. And I respectfully, you know, Rob, I know you're a realtor, but like you have to be careful because sometimes if you are selling something you, your best interest may not necessarily, you maybe feel like you're helping somebody, but at the same time, I mean you're also earning a profit on it, which can be, couldn't be okay, but it also is a double edged sword because sometimes it may not be in the best interest of the person in their five or ten year goals. Like if you have a bunch of condos that you've got and you're, you know, you have to sell them, you, you're under pressure to sell them and when you have a client who comes in through one of these meetup groups, it's very possible that that's what you're going to end up selling them and that not necessarily the right thing. And I know that they have RICO and other bodies that, that people can go to to, you know, report any issues, but at the same time, it's just like a financial advisor who is advising you about buying mutual funds, but they also are, they're also selling particular funds and getting a profit from that.
[00:11:49] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it'd be a red flag if you had a, had a realtor who didn't want to show you anything but these specific condos too. I mean, like, you know, you gotta, you gotta be a big boy as well if you're going out to buy a property. You know, I think that if you do have the education and then you go out, you'll be able to spot something like that right off the bat. I mean, it's like, you know, but.
[00:12:14] Speaker C: There'S really good, like, that's why I've.
[00:12:16] Speaker B: Always said I'm not a salesman. I, I don't even want to be a salesman. I just like, I can show people which, which, like, investments I think look amazing, but I definitely can't sell, you know, a condo that I would never dream of buying to somebody else.
[00:12:32] Speaker C: Well, it just depends on. So I want to, I gotta share you. I did a quick story and I think Mark Loeffler is not going to mind me mentioning this, but he's been, he was a recent guest on our show and I, I think he is a good salesman and one of the things that he used to do like 10 years ago. Now, I don't know if he still does this or whatever, but he'll show you three properties and he'll ask you, so which one are you going to buy?
[00:12:57] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah.
[00:12:58] Speaker C: Well, I mean, look, I just showed.
[00:12:59] Speaker B: You the three best places and if.
[00:13:01] Speaker D: You'Re not going to buy it, you're not going to buy it. I'm going to buy it, right? Yeah.
[00:13:06] Speaker B: Although I have done that. I've definitely done that a couple of times. Yeah, I went like, these are the best places and none of my investors are buying it. I guess it's mine, right?
[00:13:17] Speaker C: Yeah. And if you're in a position to buy, then you will and that, that's a good thing. But I think that there's some people who are kind of weak willed when it comes to the sales process and.
[00:13:30] Speaker B: They may not understand necessarily the salesperson's fault. Then I Mean, yeah, there's people. There's. People do all kinds of stupid things, Quentin.
[00:13:38] Speaker C: I know, and I come from a. Because I like. I. I mean, I do. I guess I do sell stuff, but I don't sell properties, and I'm not a mortgage broker, so I'm. I'm more interested in the long term.
[00:13:54] Speaker B: You just sell your investments to other partners.
[00:13:59] Speaker C: That's true. I, like. I. That is definitely something that I have done in the past, but I'm also not underwriting. Well, I'm underwriting projects, but I don't have any. And I don't have anything really to sell. So, like, I have my portfolio right now, and if you can imagine. Okay, we're. I know we're going a little off track, but, like, my. My portfolio right now is worth about $125 million. Okay. If. If I. And let's say I own 50% of that portfolio, I have. I have some properties that I own 100% of and some properties I own, like, 25% of, but depends on the size and scope. Okay. And so let's say that, you know, in the end, It's. It's like 60 million, and my equity is like 40 million. Okay. My equity is 40 million. Just say this is. I'm not. This aren't the real numbers, but. Okay, 10 years from now and, you know, what is it worth without doing anything you're asking. Yeah, well, ten years from now, has it doubled? Has it.
[00:15:06] Speaker B: I would say.
[00:15:07] Speaker C: Has it gone up? Okay, what about 20 years from now? So how much do you think that I could spend a year. And, you know, if I were to sell some of those properties and take the equity, It's. It's. I don't. I'm. I'm not motivated to have to grow or forced to grow. I'm only.
[00:15:25] Speaker B: No, but all I'm saying is when you buy new. But when you buy a new building, you have partners that you. Yeah, that's.
[00:15:32] Speaker C: Oh, absolutely. And I usually go back, sell them.
[00:15:34] Speaker B: On that property, you know, at the beginning when.
[00:15:38] Speaker C: When they weren't a property, a partner at the beginning. But now I would just go back to all my existing partners and say, hey, listen, this is a project. They know me. I don't have to. And they've gone through the process, I have to say, not really selling the.
[00:15:55] Speaker B: First time that I, you know, that I.
I, like. I don't even think I would think of it as I talked somebody into partnering with me. Right. We both kind of had the same idea, but no experience. Yeah, you know, and so like you might say that, that that's sort of a dumb thing to do but you know, that's how you get your experiences. You go out, maybe make a mistake, maybe buy the wrong property, you know, all that kind of stuff. Anyway, please go over to Breakthrough reipodcast ca listen to all the old shows and then go over to itunes and rate and review this show. Please, let's move on. Today I'm very happy that we have Kosh Nanubai with us and he's going to share with us his new garden suite that he is currently building in Hamilton. And also we're going to talk about surviving the down market. So thanks for coming on the show today.
[00:16:55] Speaker D: Thanks for having me.
[00:16:57] Speaker C: All right, I'm going to do a little bit of a, bit of a better introduction with.
[00:17:01] Speaker B: I love the bio.
[00:17:03] Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you. You only can see this on YouTube.
So. Koch transitioned from his corporate career in 2019 to become a full time real estate investor after building a diverse portfolio of a dozen properties during the past decade. His experience spans various strategies including student rentals, duplex conversions, Airbnbs and property development. One of his notable projects involved the construction of a purpose built duplex using modular building systems and he is currently working on his first two unit garden suite in Hamilton.
Coach is focused on expanding his portfolio in partnership with others and also provides coaching services to its aspiring investors. Outside of real estate. You'll find him on the hockey rink cheering on his kids.
[00:17:52] Speaker D: Banging on the, banging on the boards. Banging on the board.
[00:17:55] Speaker C: Oh, you're one of those ones. Okay.
[00:17:57] Speaker D: Not anymore.
[00:17:58] Speaker E: I used to be.
[00:17:58] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:17:59] Speaker D: Now I just, I just found that.
[00:18:01] Speaker C: Course now for that. Right. Like all the parents have to take the course.
[00:18:05] Speaker D: Tons of courses for everything. Gender, this, that, everything. So everything.
[00:18:10] Speaker B: Thank you for sitting through that long intro.
[00:18:12] Speaker D: No worries, no worries.
[00:18:13] Speaker B: We're very happy to have you here. So let's get started with just, you know, tell us a little bit about yourself.
[00:18:19] Speaker D: Sure, I guess. I'm a chartered accountant by training. Article that PwC was an auditor for like 3 years. Then I moved out into the finance world.
You know, when I did, I worked at companies like AMD Tech company and Home Depot. That was about four years. Didn't love that at the time that I was looking for a new job.
I, it was a good experience but I didn't love, I like, I want, I kind of needed something with a little more interaction rather than sitting at a desk. So at the time I was looking for a new job.
The executive recruiter that I was working with said, hey, why don't you join us and help us place accounting finance professionals with large companies. You, you know, accounting, you have a network, you, you seem to have a personality and you know, well, why don't you come and join us? And I actually ended up doing that. And the reason I did that was I always kind of became an accountant just to kind of get a footing in the business world rather than be an accountant forever. And I figured I already had the finance acumen if I moved into like more of a sales type role where you sell executive recruitment services, you know, it round out my business experience. Right. So I ended up working at a larger regional firm and then a smaller boutique firm as a partner. I did that for about 12 years.
But as I was placing people in roles, so I went from kind of like stability, you know, some sort of, you know, retirement savings and then straight to something like eat what you kill.
[00:20:03] Speaker E: Right.
[00:20:04] Speaker D: And I was placing people in roles that had pensions and retirement plans and this and that. And then I was moving into my, having my second child, my daughter, and I was thinking to myself, what am I doing for my future? Right. Like how, I mean I'm saving but like how do I, what am I really doing for like a pension or like a future, right. So around 2013, 2014, I joined RAIN. I started educating myself and between that time in 2019 when I kind of converted full time, I was building a portfolio, got up to over 10 properties and, and then just decided to transition. I mean my kids were at a prime point in their lives where, you know, they, their development like 4 to 12 year old kind of time frame. I wanted to kind of spend a lot of more time with them and real estate allowed me to, to do that by, by transitioning. And you know, I take property management fees for my company, pay myself dividends, so forth.
[00:21:08] Speaker E: Right.
[00:21:09] Speaker D: So my wife still works, but I guess that's a little bit about how I got started and what, what I, you know, there's, there's more to it, but that's kind of like a high level. Yeah.
[00:21:22] Speaker B: Well, let's, let's talk about maybe your first real estate deal. I'm sure you didn't make any mistakes.
[00:21:29] Speaker D: No, actually it was a pretty good thing I worked. It was a, it was a new build actually in St. Catharines student rental, working with my realtor Irwin at the time, he found a, you know, a builder who would kind of customize the student rental to get, provide, customize their design to have seven rooms near Brock University.
So that was pretty cool. That was kind of in the 300 range. And we were able to get an HST rebate back for that as well, which was great. And I still have those. Those are great for me.
[00:22:05] Speaker E: Right.
[00:22:05] Speaker D: You know, so that was the first. That was the first deal. So then I actually bought two. Three more after. Yeah. Two more afters. Yeah.
[00:22:14] Speaker B: Of the same type of thing.
[00:22:15] Speaker D: Yeah. Two more in that subdivision. And then I moved. I still did student rentals and I did three more near Niagara on the lake. Near a subdivision there. Yeah.
[00:22:24] Speaker B: That sounds really. That sounds like some pretty interesting things right off the bat. Actually. Those work. Like, there's pretty high cash flow in those student rentals.
[00:22:33] Speaker D: Yeah. So, you know, when you're transitioning from your job, like when I was looking at strategies, like, I had to like, figure out, like what's going to get me there the fastest.
[00:22:42] Speaker E: Right.
[00:22:43] Speaker D: And I didn't mind the extra work that student rentals, you know, you have to put in in order to reach my goal. It provided more cash flow.
[00:22:51] Speaker E: Right.
[00:22:52] Speaker D: So at the time.
[00:22:53] Speaker E: Right.
[00:22:53] Speaker D: So. So I was okay with that and that's why I picked that strategy initially. The only challenge of student rentals is refinancing.
[00:23:02] Speaker E: Right.
[00:23:02] Speaker B: So, yeah.
[00:23:03] Speaker D: To get a little bit creative, take the locks off the doors and do all that kind of stuff. If you want to stay, stay with A lenders. Right. I'm with B lenders, so. Yeah.
[00:23:11] Speaker B: You bought it. Oh, you bought them with B lenders?
[00:23:13] Speaker D: No, I bought them with A's. So when you, when you buy, really need to. Nobody's in there. Well, only if you're buying again.
[00:23:19] Speaker E: Right.
[00:23:19] Speaker D: Like. Well, when you want to take out equity. Right. But if you're buying it from a family, it's fine. But like if you're buying it from another student rental investor, it's. It's challenging to buy. I guess that. Yeah. But refinancing, you know, if you have students in, their appraiser comes in, they write in the report, you know, a lenders don't like, don't, don't, don't refinance student rentals. I think there's one or two that may, but under certain situations, and then they only use, they only use the income as if it's a single family.
[00:23:47] Speaker E: Right.
[00:23:48] Speaker D: And with the prices these days, that this doesn't work.
[00:23:50] Speaker E: Right.
[00:23:51] Speaker C: So yeah.
Could you explain a little? Because I think some of the audience probably don't understand the reasoning behind what you need to do in order to refinance a student rental because they are thinking that it's probably, well, I have all this equity in my, my property. But how come like I have 300,000 in equity and I know I've got a little bit of history, I know coach for.
[00:24:21] Speaker D: I've known a bit of coaching and.
[00:24:24] Speaker C: Yeah, so yeah, 2016-18, we did some coaching together and just before you, you were leaving your job. Yeah, but so can you explain to the audience what you need to do in order to refinance and then like what you did in order to pull some of that capital out?
[00:24:45] Speaker D: Well, me, I, if you're going to, I don't know if you're going to refinance and try to go to an A lender, you might want to do it while students are transitioning and maybe stage it a bit. You have to, you know, if you want to show it, you have to show it as a single family home.
[00:25:01] Speaker E: Right.
[00:25:01] Speaker D: So you can't have locks on doors and things like that.
[00:25:04] Speaker E: Right.
[00:25:04] Speaker D: But if you, you know me, I use a B lender that allows student rentals. I just didn't want any kind of headache or you know, anything coming back to me type thing. So that's how I did it. So. But you know, I know a lot of other people. You stage the property and you know, have the appraiser come in and then move on.
[00:25:23] Speaker E: Right.
[00:25:23] Speaker D: But you know, I'm not telling you to do that. I'm just saying that probably happens out there.
[00:25:28] Speaker C: But, but explain to people the difference between an A lender and a B lender from an equity takeout and rate perspective. Because maybe.
[00:25:36] Speaker D: So the rate difference is maybe the main difference. I mean I think the terms like 30 year ams and well, maybe A lenders provide 25 more and I guess B lenders do go 30, but like the rate difference about 2, sometimes 3%.
So it could be quite substantial.
[00:25:54] Speaker E: Right.
[00:25:56] Speaker D: Luckily like I built up the student rental to a point where, you know, we're, we're getting close to 5,000amonth. Right. So it's still manageable. I mean losing money right now. But you know, I've made money over the past that I was able, you know, we'll talk about later kind of the choose as a buffer.
[00:26:14] Speaker E: Right.
[00:26:15] Speaker D: So.
[00:26:15] Speaker B: Yeah, well, it's interesting because there's no forced appreciation in those, in those buildings. Right. So it's all just market.
[00:26:22] Speaker D: It's all just market. Right, yeah.
[00:26:24] Speaker B: And so how many years when, when did you buy them and when were you able to refinance?
[00:26:30] Speaker D: Well, I. Over. So there's one that Two that I've refinanced.
[00:26:37] Speaker C: Three.
[00:26:37] Speaker D: Yeah, no, I, it's different times. I've refinanced over different times. The most recent one that I refinanced had a lot of equity in it. And again that's, that's the one that was allowed me to kind of weather the storm over the last year or two.
[00:26:53] Speaker E: Right.
[00:26:53] Speaker D: With. With losing money on most properties. Right.
So that one, that one was through.
[00:27:00] Speaker E: A B lender as well.
[00:27:01] Speaker D: But in terms of refinancing them over time I have been able to. It's just, it's just, it's not easy all the time is that when you.
[00:27:11] Speaker B: Started is in 16, when you bought.
[00:27:13] Speaker D: Or 2014 was the first one.
[00:27:16] Speaker B: 2014. And when. And like how long was it before you were able to refinance the first one or the first one that you refinanced?
So I was trying to get an idea that was like the market really took off during that time because, you know, if to, to have it worth what it takes in order to pull equity out, there must have been a substantial.
[00:27:40] Speaker D: There were some that were done like two or three years after. And then that one, the first one I bought is actually the one that I just refinanced recently in order to have a buffer in place. Even though I had a really good rate in a lender from way back when I took it and I refinanced it, pulled a bunch of equity out and put it to be lender so that I could have a buffer for, you know, the current environment.
[00:28:07] Speaker E: Right.
[00:28:08] Speaker D: Well, not the current. Now it's going down, but I mean the past environment. So.
[00:28:13] Speaker C: Yeah, well, it's, it's interesting actually. Our, like this is one of your biggest challenges for sure because most investors, I mean, I, I've, I've been investing since 2004. I got a taste of a recession in 2008, but that wasn't a hard recession in Canada. What were ex and what we've seen in the last two years, although we're not calling it a recession from definitely from a real estate ownership perspective across Canada for the most part, you know, we've seen some big changes in the environment in Ontario, you know, we've seen prices decrease 20, 30% in the GTA in particular there. And also that's made it challenging for refinancing and also for cash flow. Right. When, when your interest rate goes up 900% in about 18 months, that's going to affect your ability to cash flow. So unless you locked into rates which not a Lot of people had done. Because the last, you know, 10 years.
[00:29:24] Speaker D: It can't go up more. It can't go up more.
[00:29:26] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I did that for a while.
[00:29:31] Speaker C: So, so this was, this was your challenge, it sounds like, right?
[00:29:34] Speaker D: It was. I mean I'm losing, I was losing thousand dollars, thousands of dollars a month.
[00:29:39] Speaker E: Right.
[00:29:39] Speaker D: And, and what was that?
[00:29:41] Speaker C: Because you're, because your interest rate was so high with the private, with the lenders, right?
[00:29:47] Speaker D: Well, every, I only do annual terms with the B lender. So every time I had to, like the two times I had to renew, you know, the rates were higher and then I don't really have any other options with B lenders.
[00:29:57] Speaker E: Right.
[00:29:57] Speaker D: I mean I could sell the property, but I know that, I knew that if I could weather the storm, right, Rents are going up. If rates went back down by next year, you know, I'll be back in deposit, maybe the year after that. It'll be very good.
[00:30:12] Speaker E: Right.
[00:30:13] Speaker C: So, okay, so right now your negative cash flow across your portfolio by about how much? I would say.
[00:30:25] Speaker D: Maybe 5000amonth or so.
[00:30:27] Speaker C: 5K a month. Holy crapola, man. Okay, so how did you solve this problem? Because as a real estate investor, our job is to solve problems. That's what we do. Whether, whether it's on a building project, whatever. How did you solve this problem?
[00:30:46] Speaker D: Well, one, as I mentioned, one, one I had to have a buffer if I, unless I was going to sell, right. So I was able to refinance even if it wasn't unfavorable, rate, pull out, you know, quite a substantial amount of equity to, to, to dip into, right. As I needed. But I also raised rents. I also tried to cut some expenses as much as possible. Right.
Any types of, anything I could look at on the piano that, you know, needed that could be cut. You know, I tried.
[00:31:21] Speaker E: What.
[00:31:22] Speaker D: And then I just pray.
[00:31:27] Speaker B: Well, you know, but I mean at.
[00:31:29] Speaker D: The end of the day I, I, when I just, I, I understood that the rates could not stay that high over time. So I just, in my mind it was like, it's like how, you know, survival mode, right? Like how I know I'll be better if I can just make it to the other side.
[00:31:47] Speaker C: Right, Yeah, I, I know what, what you're saying. And, and you know, one of the things that I was saying back in 20, 22, 23 was refinance properties, get lines of credit, get insecured lines of credit, build your, your, your defense, stress test your portfolio to 10 year rates, make sure that you're, you're going to be okay. And only in the last year and a half has that actually now it's finally people are seeing why I was saying all that. Right. Because this is when we need it. This is exactly when we need it. And I think, you know, refinancing is giving you that access. Did you have any lines of credit or.
[00:32:33] Speaker D: I did, yeah. I don't, I do. I mean, I, I don't talk. I mean, I do have unsecured lines of credits. I've secured lines of credits on my house and some of my condos that I initially like that I have as well. So I wasn't, you know, I did have other sources, but I didn't want to dip into that.
[00:32:47] Speaker E: Right.
[00:32:47] Speaker D: If I was able to use the existing equity.
[00:32:50] Speaker E: Right.
[00:32:50] Speaker D: That's what it's for. Like, you make a lot during the good times, so you need to be able to, like, move it over and balance it out during the bad times.
[00:32:59] Speaker E: Right.
[00:33:00] Speaker C: Okay, so is that. And, and by pulling out the equity and refinancing and, and adding that to your reserve fund, we'll call it, that's, that's helping you weather the storm over the last year and a half and perhaps over the next year.
[00:33:16] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then I'm raising rents. Right. So the good thing with student rentals, you know, we have six of them every year the rents have been going up, Right. You have to wait a year, but every year you can take a significant increase.
[00:33:30] Speaker E: Right.
[00:33:31] Speaker D: So it's not like, that's why, you know, with the balance of some of the duplexes I have and then some of the student rentals, it balances out a bit because, you know, we can. Rents are going up at the end of the day with the influx of students and the, the, the lack of supply, you know, that number 5,000 has probably gone down. It's, that's the last time I looked. That was like six months ago. I try not to look too often.
[00:33:55] Speaker C: Right.
[00:33:56] Speaker D: So it's. But I, that number is going to be going like this year. That number will go down significantly with the rate with. When I have to, when I have to get the new, the new one year and then the new rents because I have student turnover this year.
[00:34:10] Speaker E: Right.
[00:34:11] Speaker D: Students got, you know, you can only raise the rent certain amount when students are returning. But. Yeah.
[00:34:18] Speaker C: What about, like, have you done other strategies to help you through, through the down market? It sounds like you, you've really. Yeah, I, I, I mean, I, I talked to you when you were doing the build, like the modular build and And I'm sure you had as many challenges as I've had with, with that process.
[00:34:37] Speaker D: Yeah, that was. Yeah, yeah.
[00:34:40] Speaker C: And, but. And now you're doing the garden suites and adus. How has that played into your strategy?
[00:34:47] Speaker D: Yeah, like, so there was one other thing. I did convert one of my upper units into a midterm rental, and I was able to generate more income from that. Probably like 3,000amonth versus like 2, 200amonth. Right. So.
[00:35:05] Speaker C: So that was a furnished midterm.
[00:35:08] Speaker D: Furnished midterm, yeah. So I just, it was a test, and I think I'll. I may do it to some of the other bills that I'm doing or upper units as they turn over.
[00:35:17] Speaker C: Just uppers. Why uppers and not uppers and lowers?
[00:35:21] Speaker D: Well, in St. Catharines, I always kind of like to have one steady source of income. Right.
So I think there's also a rule that as long as one of the units is occupied, the other one it's okay to rent out or there's some sort of ruling as well.
But, but really I was. I always like to have one source that's consistent and then the other source that's a little more, you know, could be inconsistent.
[00:35:52] Speaker C: Right, Interesting.
[00:35:54] Speaker D: And people would like to rent uppers more than lowers.
[00:35:56] Speaker E: Right.
[00:35:57] Speaker C: So you do mid. You've done one as a test. And it's interesting because, you know, you're thinking as a real estate investor, let's solve a problem. I need more income. Let's push the income up. What about the cost of all the furniture? When does the. When is the point that you're profitable in the midterm rental? Because you've got a lot of upfront costs, cleaning, things like that.
[00:36:21] Speaker D: About a year, year and a half, you know. Year, year and a half. Right. It was about 10, 10, 10, 12,000 or something to furnish it.
[00:36:29] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:36:30] Speaker B: I was just going to say I thought maybe you. What I would do is just use the furniture that the old tenants left there.
[00:36:37] Speaker D: No, but. No. Yeah, they didn't leave any. So. But, but also you want it to look nice.
[00:36:42] Speaker E: Right.
[00:36:42] Speaker D: And that. That increases your rent.
[00:36:44] Speaker E: Right.
[00:36:44] Speaker D: So we got good stuff. Yeah.
[00:36:47] Speaker B: So any furniture tenants leave behind is definitely not worth keeping.
[00:36:51] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:36:53] Speaker C: Yeah. So that's, that's interesting how you, how you've done that in order to, to survive some of the down market is to like, use different strategies in your properties and then.
[00:37:05] Speaker D: Yeah, the ADU as well.
[00:37:06] Speaker E: Right.
[00:37:06] Speaker D: We have a property that we're trying to create more units. Right. At the end of the day, tell us about it.
[00:37:12] Speaker C: Tell us what you did.
[00:37:13] Speaker D: Yeah, so bought a property on Hamilton Mountain corner unit.
It was about 800 square feet, 850, something like that. We redid the whole thing like we typically do like the upper. We created a lower unit in the main house.
The good thing about this property is it had a like, good land on the back, right. It had like a little backyard area, but then also had some land and it. All right. So over the, you know, we looked into creating an ADU there as the rules started coming. It was so fresh.
[00:37:53] Speaker E: Right.
[00:37:53] Speaker D: Just as the news started, rules started coming out and I didn't really want to do just one like units because I felt like I don't know if the cost and the time and effort. So I really pushed my, you know, our designer, my planner to Andy Swimsuit Editions, right. To. To really like how do we do two. Like how do we get two in this or at least plan so that we could do two in the future. Right.
And he kind of found a. I don't know if it's a loophole or something where you can create a crawl space underneath. You can't make it a basement and call it a basement, but you can make a crawl space. And as long as one third of the the basement or the crawl space is above ground and 2/3 is below ground, it's fine even if it's an.
[00:38:45] Speaker E: Eight foot crawl space.
[00:38:47] Speaker D: So.
[00:38:50] Speaker C: I, I love Andy. He's very creative. He's, you know, I think he, we should get him on the, the podcast again.
[00:38:58] Speaker D: You should, you should. He's really at the forefront of a lot of these densification type initiatives and travels to the states to see how they're doing it there and stuff like that.
[00:39:09] Speaker B: Yes, it is interesting. Like on open floor plans you like, I've seen people, you have to just label a certain amount of the open space one way and the certain, you know, in order to. Storage. Yeah, exactly. Storage.
[00:39:25] Speaker C: Right. Yeah, exactly.
[00:39:27] Speaker D: So and then you know, kind of creating, you know, the layout so that it could be added. So like having done a duplex conversions and kind of understanding how the staircases are and how you kind of go into the other units. We designed it basically like in a way that we could, you know, if we're ever, you know, we're not going to do anything illegally, but if we are, everything's changing right now.
[00:39:50] Speaker E: Right.
[00:39:50] Speaker D: So you can't build it after.
[00:39:52] Speaker E: Right.
[00:39:52] Speaker D: You can't pick up the house and dig after.
[00:39:54] Speaker E: Right.
[00:39:55] Speaker D: So it was, the math was like, okay, it's 40,000 for a foundation. And even when you're doing just a regular garden suite, you're gonna have to do some sort of foundation system as well.
[00:40:04] Speaker E: Right.
[00:40:05] Speaker D: So home as additional space, you know, is it, could I get 400 more in rent for example?
[00:40:17] Speaker E: Right.
[00:40:19] Speaker D: And I think the answer was yes. So why wouldn't we kind of build this and one day maybe if we re, when we redo it we add another, you know, spend another 40k, 50k and get $2,000 in rent, you know what I mean? So you know, that's the kind of thinking. We just wanted to make sure that we had that available either way. And then you know, we can close it off because of the way the staircase is. We have a side door, you know, just like you know, normal bungalow would have.
[00:40:45] Speaker E: Right.
[00:40:46] Speaker D: And our stairs in the front are elevated.
[00:40:48] Speaker E: Right.
[00:40:49] Speaker D: So that's kind of how we made the design.
And we have 10 foot ceilings on the main floor so it's not going to look small. It's 600 square foot. So in Hamilton you're allowed to do 70% of the footprint of the existing house and St. Catharines they allow you 10% of the lot size which we can talk a bit about more there.
[00:41:11] Speaker C: That's interesting.
[00:41:12] Speaker B: So it's based off of the, the, the, the. Sorry, in Hamilton you're saying that what you can build as an accessory dwelling is based off of the size of the house that's already there.
That's kind of a, that's kind of a silly rule.
[00:41:31] Speaker D: Well they want it to be, they don't want it to be, they want it to be inferior to the existing house. They don't want, you know what I mean? Like they want it to be smaller than the existing house from a, you know, from a neighborhood perspective I guess. You know what I mean? Like they don't want like your, your main house here and then a huge house overshadowing the. You know what I mean? I guess that's the thought process.
[00:41:54] Speaker B: You maybe put some additions on the original house and then you could do that too.
[00:41:58] Speaker D: Yeah, you could do that too. So like, you know, I knew these rules were changing like Kitcheners allowing two units in a garden suite. It's not allowed in Hamilton yet, but we're looking, we'll probably apply for a, a minor variance or something like that. And you know, based on the way things are going and the focus on housing, I don't, you know, I'm hopeful, I'm pretty confident that yeah, you know, we'll be able to do it eventually. Right.
[00:42:19] Speaker C: So yeah, we're seeing across the region different municipalities allowing three units in single family zoning. So, you know, and that means that within the, the, the structure itself, which is kind of, kind of interesting, but. Well, I wanted to ask you a couple of kind of little bit more in the weeds questions because, because I got a bit of a like thing. So what was the purchase price of the house?
[00:42:51] Speaker D: 600, I think.
[00:42:52] Speaker C: 600K. Okay. And what did it cost you to get the basement suite done? Like ballpark.
[00:43:00] Speaker D: I think it was like 80.
[00:43:04] Speaker C: 80. Okay, so let's say, so let's say.
[00:43:08] Speaker D: 6, another 25 upstairs.
[00:43:10] Speaker C: Okay, so let's say it's been like.
[00:43:13] Speaker D: Three, four years ago now. So remember all the numbers.
[00:43:16] Speaker C: Yeah, three, four years ago. Okay. And then, and then what's the value of the property with just the basement in it without the ADU?
[00:43:27] Speaker D: 8 8, 88 50. I haven't looked at it recently.
[00:43:31] Speaker C: Yeah, so you, you, you increased the property at that time to its highest and best use and you've taken advantage of the equity build and the lift that, that comes from it. Right. Right now you're building another 600 square foot, let's call it addition.
Yeah, because it's basically.
[00:43:53] Speaker D: It's another home.
[00:43:54] Speaker C: Yeah, it's, yeah, it's an, it's another home for sure. But the like the crawl space, it's kind of like, you know, you add like a wall connecting two properties together and it's the same property, right?
[00:44:04] Speaker D: No, but it's totally detached.
[00:44:06] Speaker E: Right?
[00:44:06] Speaker C: Totally detached. Right.
[00:44:07] Speaker E: Okay.
[00:44:07] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:44:09] Speaker C: So you're building another house. Basically a 600 square foot house. What, what does, what does it cost to build a 600 square foot house? Like ballpark.
[00:44:20] Speaker D: 300.
[00:44:21] Speaker C: Okay, so 300k just without the basement.
[00:44:24] Speaker D: You know, with the basement, you know, add another 50 or whatever.
[00:44:27] Speaker E: Right.
[00:44:27] Speaker C: So okay, so 300 to 350. Okay, so now what is the value of the property today with the 350 and the 850?
[00:44:39] Speaker D: Haven't got there yet, but I'm pretty sure we'll get our value back at.
[00:44:43] Speaker E: The end of the day.
[00:44:44] Speaker D: Like, I mean you can't build it. Like, you can't. You know, it's only 200 square foot less than the existing house.
[00:44:51] Speaker E: Right?
[00:44:51] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:44:52] Speaker D: And, and we're building it for 350. I mean, I'm sure it'll be worth. I haven't done an ad. I usually do an as is like or sorry, A to B kind of appraisal, but we haven't done that. In this one, you know, so. Yeah, we're not really. We're. We're self funding through a credit line, so we're not really kind of trying for financing and stuff. Otherwise, I may have done that. You know what I mean?
[00:45:12] Speaker C: Are there any comps that you can base your property on?
Like, have you.
[00:45:17] Speaker D: There's no. I don't believe there's any other garden suites that. That'll be the way that mine is. There's probably some garage conversions.
[00:45:25] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:45:25] Speaker D: That are there, but again, if they're not sold, they're not really comps.
[00:45:28] Speaker E: Right. Right.
[00:45:29] Speaker C: Yeah, that's right. So. So is there any comp. I guess you don't have a comp that you can.
[00:45:34] Speaker D: No. We'll have to get creative.
[00:45:35] Speaker B: When the appraisal appraiser comes around, you're looking for Quentin. The thing that you have, it's called ocd. That's what.
[00:45:42] Speaker D: That's what it is.
[00:45:43] Speaker B: You're gonna have to get back to us and. And.
[00:45:46] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:45:46] Speaker B: And fill us in when you get.
[00:45:47] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, I. Like I said, I don't. I. I'm not worried really about the appraisal amount. I mean, we'll get our money back. It's just.
[00:45:55] Speaker B: It's an interesting thing too, because, I.
[00:45:56] Speaker D: Mean, you can't build like, you can't buy a house for. You know what I mean? Like, you just can't buy a house for what we're building it. We're going to be building it at.
[00:46:03] Speaker E: Right.
[00:46:04] Speaker C: So.
[00:46:04] Speaker E: Right, right. Yeah.
[00:46:09] Speaker B: Appraisals can be very tricky. Right.
[00:46:12] Speaker D: But, like, even if we just finish the basement, right, it's still going to be an 1100 square foot house. Like, if you take out some space for, you know, the service room and so forth.
[00:46:21] Speaker E: Right.
[00:46:22] Speaker D: Add another room downstairs. You know what I mean? Like, at the end of the day, it's just. It's a smaller, like, main floor footprint than like maybe like a thousand square foots that are standard. But it's 600 and it'll be like 500, you know, 5. 550 downstairs, even if we just leave it as a single family home.
[00:46:37] Speaker E: Right.
[00:46:38] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:46:39] Speaker D: And there's a key thing here, guys, is there's no severance cost and there's no. No development fees.
[00:46:45] Speaker C: Absolutely. Yeah. This is gonna save a lot.
[00:46:48] Speaker D: So you save a lot of money that way. So when that appraisal. Right. You know, like, that's not it. That's not kind of like, that's. That's a bit of your buffer.
[00:46:57] Speaker E: Right.
[00:46:58] Speaker C: Yeah, no, I. I think. And there's A lot more lenders that are, are coming on side for adus. Like we've seen Equitable National Bank, a few other institutions start to look at the ADUs and the garden Suites, garage Suites and being able to refinance. So I think you're like kind of like the tip of the sword right now when it comes to this. And even if you don't get it right away, I think you will get it in time. Yeah. I just find that my challenge is that the cost per square foot on the build, like.
And challenge me on this. Like, I like it's kind of interesting because it's like if you were to spend 350k, why not just buy two other duplexes?
[00:47:55] Speaker D: I mean, financing finance, you have to get financing for that.
[00:47:58] Speaker E: Right.
[00:47:59] Speaker D: You have to do all that. But for us, like it, it's not like we're. My part, like this is different. I have it with a partner, so. Okay. They don't necessarily want to buy two more.
[00:48:11] Speaker E: Right.
[00:48:11] Speaker D: But they're open to like spending on what we have already. Right, okay. Because it's, because it's, it's the one property.
[00:48:18] Speaker E: Right.
[00:48:18] Speaker D: So in that situation, you know, it's different too. Yeah.
[00:48:22] Speaker C: Okay. So it makes more sense because of the particular situation that you're in.
[00:48:26] Speaker D: Yeah. Like they have a larger line of equity on their, their home.
[00:48:29] Speaker E: Right.
[00:48:30] Speaker D: That they're, they're open to using. They can see that, see what's happening, the development. They're not worried about other like interest rates or prop. Where is it going to be? Who's going to, you know, like all that other stuff that comes with buying a new property. Yeah, they know where it's going to be. They know that we've had proven success over the last three, four years.
[00:48:46] Speaker E: Right.
[00:48:46] Speaker D: So. Or two to three years. So.
[00:48:49] Speaker B: And eventually you will put, you will, you know, get it appraised and put together a mortgage on it. Right?
[00:48:56] Speaker D: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. They'll have their money back and then, you know, if they want to buy more then than they could.
[00:49:01] Speaker E: Right.
[00:49:01] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:49:02] Speaker C: I think, I think the other, the big thing that, that we're not saying and that we probably should say is that there is a bit of a war on investors when it comes to financing them. And you know, this is a good example of intensification. It's, it's a great example of intensification.
But one of the things you said was that. And I, and I am hearing this again and again from other investors. Financing new projects is a challenge for investors. These are the people that are preventing providing rental properties to other people who need them. And somebody like you who has six or 10 under their belt is going to have challenge getting financing on those projects. Not because it doesn't make sense, just because you have other properties. That, that is the, the whole reason why. And it's a war on investors that is being initiated by the federal government and by just ignorant people who don't understand that we're providing rental properties to people. So it's just something to. That, that's kind of frustrated me a little bit. And it's something that you kind of said while you were, while you were talking there.
[00:50:23] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, no, I definitely, I definitely see that sentiment in, in, in the news and policy. Right. Which is unfortunate.
[00:50:33] Speaker C: Yeah, it is. Okay. Sorry I got all worked up again.
So what's, what's the other thing about.
[00:50:42] Speaker D: This is it's, it's, it's a new property.
[00:50:44] Speaker E: Right.
[00:50:44] Speaker D: So it's going to be new, there's going to be very low maintenance. You know, for a partner that, that's definitely appealing as well.
[00:50:51] Speaker E: Right?
[00:50:52] Speaker C: Yeah. Now you're doing a one on one coaching program.
So what's.
[00:50:58] Speaker D: Yeah, it's nothing, nothing really formal but like, you know, like you said, like if you just kind of like someone has a base knowledge but they're having trouble getting started, they want to do some of the things that I've been doing. You know, it, it makes sense to just like provide some services to, to other investors who are maybe stuck or maybe need some advice on, on how to get going or whether they're scared about something and you know, that type of thing.
[00:51:22] Speaker E: Right.
[00:51:22] Speaker D: So discovery call. If we think there's a match, then we just go ahead. Five, five hours, five hour blocks. That's how it works.
[00:51:32] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:51:32] Speaker B: Do you have a name for it or is it, do you have a name for it? A website? Nothing like that. How do they, how do they get in touch with you then?
[00:51:39] Speaker C: Poacher's Corner?
[00:51:41] Speaker D: You can, you can. Yeah. Wow.
You can, you can. I can leave my information in the show notes for you?
[00:51:49] Speaker C: Yeah, we'll, we'll make sure to include all the contact.
[00:51:52] Speaker D: Honestly, I'm not like chasing people. Like if people reach out to me, like I, it's not like I'm, I'm busy with a lot of other things. So it's. Yeah, I think I'm just saying if that's, if that's something. I've had a couple people approach me. I mean there's only so much time I can spend people for Free as well. So it's kind of a way to put up a little bit of a barrier, but at the same time, you know, weed out the people who are serious about moving forward.
[00:52:16] Speaker E: Right.
[00:52:17] Speaker B: I mean, it's pretty catchy. Coach. Coach's Corner.
[00:52:24] Speaker C: All right.
[00:52:28] Speaker B: Maybe cartoon.
[00:52:31] Speaker C: You like hockey?
Anyways, okay, so I had to go there.
[00:52:38] Speaker B: So what. What's next for you? What are you. What are your big plans?
[00:52:42] Speaker D: I mean, I have two other properties in St. Catharines that I'm looking to add garden suites to. The reason why St. Catharines is appealing is there's that accelerator fund, right, like that, Greener Homes, whatever that some fund that the federal government provides municipalities. So they provided St. Catherine's with some money. And the way that St. Catherine's has decided to distribute it is they will give you 80. An $80,000 grant for building an ADU.
If you're just doing a basement suite, they'll give you 40, but the max is 80 on one property. So I could, you know, you know, take another. Take one third off the build costs on top of not having a development charge or, or severance fees. And in St. Catharines, they go by lot size. So I have some bigger lots where I could actually build an 800 square foot house. And it'll be the same size as my existing house, you know, for what, like 350 minus, you know, 80.
[00:53:52] Speaker E: Right.
[00:53:53] Speaker D: And it'll be the same as my existing house, which is worth 600,000.
[00:53:58] Speaker E: Right.
[00:54:00] Speaker D: For so, you know what I mean? Like there's, that's.
[00:54:03] Speaker B: So what are the stipulations in, in this grant?
[00:54:05] Speaker D: You know what? There's not much. You basically apply for it.
You. There are some criteria, but, you know, they're not like onerous. Like, in terms of, like, when I say onerous, there's some of these programs where you have to put affordable housing. You have to make sure the rent matches this. None of that, like, it's more. It seems to be more just complete the. Complete the. The unit. And then we'll give it to you. Like, show us that you did it right. Added housing.
[00:54:35] Speaker B: Well, I've never heard of anything like that.
[00:54:38] Speaker D: Yeah, it's pretty crazy. It's pretty crazy. St. Catherine's very landlocked. They don't have many much, much Greenfield land at all to like build anywhere. So I think that, I mean, if it's not their money, right. It's the federal government's money. They're just administering it.
[00:54:53] Speaker E: Right?
[00:54:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Is. What's the, like how much Is there, Do you know?
[00:55:02] Speaker D: I think this gravy train, I can't remember the exact number, but I remember my contractor calculating like it was a thing. You know, what if we do 380 use at 300. Sorry, yeah, 300 projects at 300k.
Yeah, maybe. Is it 9, is it 99 million? I can't remember now. There's, there's enough to do like 300 projects in the city.
[00:55:30] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:55:33] Speaker C: That's great.
[00:55:34] Speaker D: So if they spend it all that way, right. Like, they're. Right, they're saying it's available, but they might kind of put, you know, some, some, some in another spot, you know, another program comes up, they might use some of the fund.
[00:55:45] Speaker E: Right.
[00:55:45] Speaker D: So sounds like I'm just talking about what I've been allotted, right? What the city's been allotted and what, you know, what one of their programs.
[00:55:52] Speaker E: Right.
[00:55:53] Speaker D: So, but, so that's what I've been looking at. Yeah. So. And I do have another query lot which is really good for these types of projects.
[00:56:02] Speaker E: Right.
[00:56:02] Speaker D: So, so, yeah, I mean, I think we could build it, you know, around 250, you know, maybe, maybe around 250.
[00:56:12] Speaker B: See how all this stuff goes. Because, I mean, that's, I like the sound of that. It's impressive. And congratulations for all of your successes and thanks for coming on the show and sharing with us.
[00:56:24] Speaker D: No problem. Yeah, yeah.
[00:56:25] Speaker C: This, this was great. So how can people get in touch with you?
[00:56:29] Speaker D: I mean, I'm on Instagram, so just my name, Kosh Nanubai. You could add me or I can provide my email, which is k nanubai mail.com, basically. Right, okay.
[00:56:41] Speaker B: We'll put all that in the show notes. Send, send me any links that you want in the show notes. I'll make sure that they're in there so people can get in touch with you.
[00:56:48] Speaker D: Sure. All right.
[00:56:49] Speaker B: Quinton, how can people get in touch with you?
[00:56:51] Speaker C: Yeah, you can sign up for a 15 minute call if you want to talk real estate.
Quintenge.com. happy to do that with you. And how about you, Rob? How can people get in touch with you?
[00:57:05] Speaker B: Email me. RobertThrough CA Listen, I know there's a bunch of people out there that may be curious about investing in Costa Rica. So please give me a call. I'd love to help you find a vacation spot and get out of that cold and into some warm weather and into the ocean. Chilling. We'll go sailing. Come on.
[00:57:25] Speaker C: Oh, that's, that's a, that's a good one. Any inquiries one other thing. Episode 45 is the one that with Andy Tran in it. So if you want to go back and listen to episode 45, have Andy on again. Yeah, we can do that. We will as well. But he's also from a past episode.
[00:57:42] Speaker B: That's funny, though. I wonder if there's probably, like, man.
[00:57:45] Speaker C: 45 would have been, I don't know, 2016, August 1st.
[00:57:50] Speaker B: So there you go. That's, like, eight years ago. I'm sure a lot has changed since then.
[00:57:53] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. Absolutely.
All right.
[00:57:57] Speaker B: Yep. Thanks. We'll see you guys next time.
[00:57:59] Speaker C: Awesome. Thanks, Kosh.
[00:58:01] Speaker D: No problem. Take care.
